John Leckie interview at Poptones - New Order Online - A New Order and Joy Division Web Site

John Leckie answers Poptones.co.uk's Questions of Doom about producing New Order's new album, Cowboy Junkies, Stone Roses, The Verve, being questioned about his acid in-take by Korn!, Phil Spector, Hokum Clones, Ride, XTC, Dukes of the Stratosphere, the La's.

Do you ever wake up and think ‘Fuck me', I'm a legendary British producer'?

No. No, I don't.

How are the studio sessions for New Order coming along?

They are going really well. They have done some of the tracks with me and Stephen Street and some by themselves. All-in-all about twenty tracks. What can I say about New Order? They are great. Same as they ever were.

How did you get asked to produce New Order?

They just asked me. They phoned me up and asked me and that was it. I went up to see them at Realworld studios.

When you left Abbey Road - you continued to work on post-punk projects - do you feel that you left a psychedelic glean on XTC?

I don't know. I think so. XTC always were a bit psychedelic. They used to be called the Helium Kids for god sakes...! I guess I did bring some psychedelia to XTC. There weren't really punk. Though they played in that style. They just played fast. The playing was too good for punk. Andy Partridge said that he always had to unlearn everything he learned to play punk.

Did the psychedelic nature of XTC originally attract you to them?

Yeah it did attract me to them. But you've got to remember at that time I was desperate for work. I did produce a couple of bands before that - Be Bop Deluxe who were forerunners of XTC. XTC always wished they were Be Bop Deluxe. That was for EMI and Harvest. Bill Nelson is still going. Fantastic guitar player. I also produced Doctors of Madness on Polydor.

Who were Doctors of Madness?

Doctors of Madness were Kid Strange, not Steve Strange, but the original Strange, Urban Blitz, Pete Dilemma and Stoner. Kid Strange was a character, he used to walk around with mirrors on his eyelids. He went on to become a noted Shakespearean actor. He was one of the first pre-punk punks. For awhile there - he was becoming a bit of an actor and he was going to the same show in Germany and having to fly out every week. His chauffeur at the time told him that Johnny Rotten used him and the same car. Kid Strange remembered a time when Sex Pistols were supporting Doctors of Madness and the Pistols had nicked their wallets. So, he writes a note to Johnny to give to the chauffeur to relate the event. So, a month went by and he was using the same chauffeur. He asked him if he had passed his note to Johnny Rotten. The chauffeur had a letter back from John and when he opened it there was fifty dollars in there and a note that said: ‘Sorry mate, John'. It's all in Kid Strange's book ‘

Dukes of the Stratosphear looked like really good fun? How did that idea come about? Were you encouraged to excess?

The Dukes were excess at al times. When that album came about I had not worked with XTC in many years but I always kept in touch with Andy. We would talk every four months or so on the phone or go out for a curry. We always kept in touch. Andy told me that he had all these psychedelic songs that weren't good enough for XTC. XTC were under lot of pressure to come up with commercial hit singles. And all they wanted to do was to make proper music. XTC albums were costing a fortune and not really selling. And Andy was itching to do something that was no pressure - something that was just fun. When we were doing the Dukes of Stratosphear record there was no pressure. The sessions were just fun. And a lot of ideas. Like the different funny names. At first every track was meant to be by a different artist. But they kept it all with the Dukes. It ended up, of course, selling more than their other records that cost like £200,000. The first Dukes cost £5,000. Virgin said that was all the money budgeted for that project. I did it for £4,500 and sent back the £500 and told them to keep the change. It went on to sell like 100,000 albums. Virgin told us to go out make some more. We were going to do a continuum of Dukes albums. Like Dukes of Stratosphear - the Glitter Years, the Dukes of Stratosphear - Live at the Cavern.

What was it like working for the Cowboy Junkies?

I had all three of the Cowboy Junkies albums in the beginning. When they asked me to produce their album it was, unfortunately, their last record for Geffen. Everyone around them was desperate for a hit singles - everyone at Geffen was looking for the big hit. So, they had it mixed by some whizz kid Los Angeles mixer. And it came out the exact opposite that I went and intended for it too come out.

I always thought their best album was the one that they did in Holy Trinity. When we did our album together it was in a place in the country. Miles from anywhere. We stayed there for a week working on songs. But when we went to record the album it was in a big studio in Toronto. Something like the Canadian version of Abbey Road. It was all a bit posh for them and me but we got the album down.

With the Verve you were one of the first people to get obsessed with them. What fuelled it?

It started off that I saw them as a support band at the Falcon in Camden. When the Verve were on it was the most amazing thing that I had seen. They were playing again at some club in New Cross. I had to go and see them again to see what I experienced the first time was true. The Verve experience in the early days was almost religious. In the early days - one song could be their entire set. I was really impressed with them. I don't think I really caught it on their first album ... what they did live. On the album none of the songs had to be over ten minutes. Though all the songs in rehearsals were. They just played until they stopped. It was a bit tricky editing them down. Trying to make a ten track album out of twenty minute songs.

You worked with Richard during the time of the first Verve split? Are the sessions going to be released.

They are coming out on the Verve box sit. The Verve have a new greatest hits coming out and the one song Richard and I worked on - is going to be on the Greatest Hits called Monte Carlo. How did we get it together? This was after the first split between Nick McCabe and Richard. We went up to work on songs at Realworld Studios. And we were doing the new songs. But he was lacking the instrumentalist, really. There was Richard, the bass player, the drummer and another one that really didn't take off the way that Nick McCabe did with Richard. We ended up doing thirty songs. But Richard would never finish anything. The songs at that time were Drugs Don't Work and Sonnett. I would always say - lets' get back in the studio and finish these songs off. Richard was first up for it and then he would come in with some new songs. At that time Richard was full of uncertainty without Nick in the band. He is probably like that now.

How did you hook up with Stone Roses?

I got their demo from Geoff Travis and then from Silvertone as well. I went up to see them in Manchester and it was good. We went into the studio and we did four tracks. The four big tracks on the record. I Wanna Be Adored, Waterfall, She Bangs the Drums ... all those went on the record. We went in another day and did another four. And then we went to Rockfield to finish it off. They were great. The best band that had all the ingredients about what I liked about music. They hated being called retro-fetish. They hated being called sixties. But they were a lot of things that they were accused of - they had the jangly records and the harmonies.

What were your thoughts of Fool's Gold?

Fool's Gold? Great. I thought it was the best thing. But when we did the record, right up until the end, Fool's Gold was always thought of as the b-side and a proper song. I thought it was really good. It was great and fell into place and it was unlike anything else on the first record.

It sounds very similar to Can. Were Can a reference point?

I didn't notice it. And Can was known by the band and me. But it wasn't a reference point. So, no that wasn't a reference.

On Second Coming - you had a fall-out with the Roses, why?

There wasn't any fall-out with them really. No punch ups. No bad vibes. It got to the stage where we kind of exhausted each other, really. At that point - there was no manager. Gareth had already left. They were signed to Geffen in America but no representative came over from America. And the band never went over to America. I used to plead with them to go over to NYC.

It was just four guys and me. It just sort of dragged on and on. It was a year and a half before I left. Eighteen months in total. Most of the time in the studio - it was cancelled. We would book a studio for a month and they would call up and cancel the booking. That would be another month in the studio gone. And I couldn't work with another band at the time because I was booked with the Stone Roses.

When they first came in - it was really great. We did Breaking into Heaven, Ten Storey Love Song and the backbone of Second Coming in six weeks. Then months went by and then years. I left because I thought a change would shake them up. And it did. They carried on for a year after that.

You can see the mistakes that were made in hindsight. I just begged them the entire time to get out of Manchester. After their successes and court cases, I just thought a weekend in Los Angeles, New York City and Chicago would have really vibed them up.

You said that Reni was the best drummer that you've worked with? Do you think his solo album will ever come out?

He still is the best drummer I've ever worked with. His band is called The Rub. I wish his solo album would come up. A couple of years ago, they did a little tour that was a bit indulgent. I don't know what he will do. He had a great voice. He wasn't a front man but he acted like a front man. I think Reni went to acting school. He was always putting on a show, impersonating people, showing off - but he was only acting. Reni is a star.

You worked with Phil Spector on George Harrison's All Things Must Pass. What did you feel about his aborted sessions with Starsailor and do you agree with the criticisms that the band made of Phil's work?

Phil did three tracks on the album. When they finished it off and mixed it - they removed every element of Phil Spector. Starsailor were in there for a long time with Phil. I don't think they were going to get-it-off. But I think Phil wanted to make a comeback, get back to work. And being a record producer - I can understand that - you want to live in and live for working in the studio. I think his daughters encouraged him to get back to work. They were all Radiohead fans. He asked Radiohead and Coldplay and they both said no and Starsailor said yes. But I could be wrong about that. I don't know. Phil was a bit behind the times. Why did Starsailor chose him in the first place? I'm sure he was not cheap. When I heard the record I was amazed that they took away the Phil Spector element...

You were working with Hokum Clones. I thought they were brilliant and yet they seemingly disappeared off the face of the planet?

I don't know. I've not heard from them. I've been in America for the past few months working with Longwave. I've tried all I can. Spoke with them and everything. I just love that kind of music. We went into the studio and it sounded great, crunched-it-all-up and they sounded like blues artists on a 78 record. But since then it has gone all wobbly. I don't know.

You've also worked with Ride on Carnival of Light...

When I made that record - I had a feeling that they were going to split up. There were division in the band and it wasn't the happiest record to make. You had the feeling that everyone had other agendas.

What happened with the La's project that you were supposed to be working on and was abandoned?

That was ages, ago. That was before ‘There She Goes Again'. I did the first two Cast records though. What happened there? It was all a bit ... I was the third of the five producers. There were two before me. Then they were going to produce it themselves. And then Steve Lillywhite came in. We did about five tracks. A couple of those were released as b-sides. But with Lee - nothing was settled and nothing could be decided. There She Goes is a legendary song though. I wish he did a few more like that.

You also worked with another genius eccentric genius - Laurence from Felt. What was that like?

Laurence is a bit of a perfectionist. He is a bit crazy when he does his records. I did Strange Idol Patterns with Cherry Red and Space Blues for Creation. Space Blues was done with Martin Duffy. The thing about Laurence is that he always appears to be really miserable. But Laurence is good when he laughs. I've not seen him for years. We also did Denim and Back in Denim together. He wanted to re-record his demos but there was no point. He captured the sound perfectly on the demos.

Why do you always work with crazed artists? Choice or design?

That is by choice. That is what I recognise. You know where you are with the crazy ones. It has more excitement, more fun and is wilder. It is funny that, I don't know why but those are the artists that I'm excited by. The worst thing is going into the studio with people who are a bit bland. Craziness is something that I'm excited by.. And the record company can only smell hits. I like the crazy ones...

What was the most surreal moment of your career?

The weirdest? Korn wanted me to produce their last album.
What the fuck?

Yeah. It was the forth album. They flew me out to America at great expense. It probably cost them ££10,000. And then they wouldn't meet me. I would phone their management everyday trying to get a meeting with the band and they wouldn't meet up with me. They always had some excuse. And remember that they asked me to fly over to America to talk about producing their second album. So on the final day, I phoned them up and said - look, my plane is leaving today - am I going to meet the band or what? They said that I could meet the band at three - I told them - but my plane leaves at six. But I went to the meeting anyways. So I enter into this room and the first thing that I notice is this sign that says: Anyone that enters into this room, has consented to be videotaped. So I go in and the band are in their wearing all their adidas clothing and stuff. So I sit down with the singer and he goes to me: What I want to know is how much acid did you take when you were producing Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.' I told him that I worked with Pink Floyd on that record but didn't produce it. He was shocked. But someone told me that it was you who produced Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.' And I said no. But I could tell you how much acid I took...!

This article:

http://www.neworderonline.com/News.aspx?NewsID=847

Excerpts taken from Poptones.

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October 29, 2004 8:51:00 AM	Show images